The Immigrant Recruiter Perspective
In this episode, you have the privilege of getting two unique perspectives combined - the perspective of an immigrant and the perspective of a recruiter.
Here is a sample peek into of some of the nuggets of wisdom Nicole shares:
The importance of research - pre and post migrating.
How to promote your work experience from another country.
How to recognize when an organization is willing to embrace and values your background and foreign work experiences.
Nicole has over 25 years of experience in HR and Recruitment; has worked in well-known multinational organizations, is a Senior Recruiter at Optum and is a wife and mom. Just before I migrated to the US, she was my supervisor. About 5 years ago, she migrated from our home country Trinidad and Tobago to the US. In this episode, Nicole shares her experiences and insights as both an immigrant and a recruiter. Super excited to share this conversation with you because there is something in it for everyone.
Transcript: A Conversation with Nicole Blanc
Accentuate! Podcast
Host: Rhonda Gardner
Guest: Nicole Blanc
This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity and readability. Filler, repeated words, and brief acknowledgments have been removed while preserving the speakers’ meaning and perspectives. References to employment, family circumstances, and experiences reflect the time of the interview. Bracketed notes identify wording that needs confirmation against the audio.
Introducing Nicole
Rhonda: Hello, everyone. This is the Accentuate! Podcast, amplifying the voices of immigrants and refugees for success in the workplace. I’m Rhonda Gardner, the host and an immigrant from Trinidad and Tobago living in the US. Today, my guest is Nicole Blanc.
Nicole was the last supervisor I had in Trinidad before I migrated to the US. She’s also from Trinidad and Tobago. Nicole, thank you so much for being here to share your story. I realize I don’t even know your full story, so I’m excited to hear about it.
Perhaps we could start by introducing yourself and telling us a little about what you did in Trinidad before migrating.
Nicole: Sure. Rhonda, thank you for asking me to take part in this. I think it’s a very important thing you’re doing.
I was in Trinidad for the majority of my career. I started my official professional career, as they call it, with PricewaterhouseCoopers in the consulting division, doing recruitment. That was my foot in the door.
I went on to set up and run several human resources and recruitment service lines for other Big Four companies. My final role was Director of HR Services with Grant Thornton in Trinidad, where I was for about nine years before deciding to move to the United States. We moved at the end of 2018.
So, about 25 years in HR, with a focus on client service.
Deciding to leave Trinidad and Tobago
Rhonda: What led you to leave Trinidad and Tobago?
Nicole: Let me start by saying it was not an overnight decision. I’m married with three kids, although I can’t really call two of them kids anymore because my oldest is now 25 and my youngest is 12.
Back in 2016, I think, my husband and I started toying with the idea of leaving Trinidad. I had been thinking about it before that. I’ve been a US citizen for more than half my life because my parents moved to Florida in my late teens.
I was already at school in England by then, so I moved between England, Florida, and Trinidad. On one of my visits to Trinidad, I met my husband. As these things go, I went for a visit and didn’t leave for [duration unclear in the supplied transcript].
There was a series of events. Trinidad started to get very difficult to do business in. I don’t want to get into talking about it. It’s still my home country and a big part of who I am.
My boys were getting to college age, and I was at what I considered the top of my career. There wasn’t much further for me to go in terms of climbing the corporate ladder. I was earning a decent salary, was happy, and loved what I did. But I couldn’t see myself being able to afford the university education I wanted my children to have.
My husband had been a business owner for as long as I had been working. He was in the marine industry, and his business had started to die off for a whole host of reasons we won’t get into. It became very difficult to do business.
We waited through two or three elections over time. As I said, this started years before. With each government change, we hoped to see a change in the country’s development, and we didn’t see it happening. We couldn’t see the future. When you’re a parent, you get very focused on your kids, their future, and what you want for them.
Trinidad has great universities, and my oldest did two years of tertiary education there before we left. But crime became a huge issue. We lived in a fairly safe neighborhood and didn’t feel safe anymore. I couldn’t feel comfortable with my kids walking around.
All these factors came into play: finances, safety, the future, looking toward retirement, and the fact that we were getting older. That was our catalyst. We decided to move to Massachusetts because, being a Trini, we like to go where we know people. We have family here, and that’s why we ended up where we did.
Everybody thought we were crazy because it’s cold, and most people go to Florida. I had lived in Florida before. It wasn’t my cup of tea.
Rhonda: I’m not a person who would live there either. Nothing against Florida; it’s just never attracted me.
Nicole: That’s it in a nutshell.
Preparing for a new country and job market
Rhonda: Migrating to another country means acclimatizing to a different culture. How long have you been here? What steps have you taken, and what challenges have you faced?
Nicole: We’re in our fifth year, which is crazy. It feels like yesterday.
Acclimatizing personally wasn’t as difficult as you might expect because I had lived and worked in three countries before that. I lived and worked in the US in my early 20s, in the UK, and obviously in the Caribbean.
One of the first things I did professionally, because my background is in HR, was get my SHRM-SCP certification. That was a deliberate decision related to being an immigrant. Here I was moving to the United States, and my degrees were from the United Kingdom, not American universities. I had to make myself as relevant as possible.
I had been a member of SHRM for years and participated in local chapters, so I made that decision. I got it done the year before we moved, during the planning phase. It took a year to get my family’s papers sorted out so we could leave.
Then I started researching. One of the first steps, going back to relevance, was understanding what types of jobs were out there.
Of course, there was also getting ready to move to another country. Fortunately, we had family here to help us find somewhere to live and identify schools for my youngest. None of those things was easy, I have to tell you. They weren’t easy at all.
Learning about credit history
Nicole: That brought lessons about other things you have to prepare for, including the fact that we had no credit history.
Rhonda: That’s a big adjustment because it’s not something that happens in Trinidad in the same way.
Nicole: No, or at least nothing that seems to count here. Even though we had been homeowners for many years, had sold our home, and were lucky enough to have money in the bank, we couldn’t get a mortgage.
I was able, through sheer persuasion and having cash, to get a car. The only reason we secured a rental was that we had family who knew the landlord and could be a character reference for us, because we had no credit history.
These are some of the hurdles. I keep going back to the fact that we had money in the bank because it takes time to find work. Settling in takes money: getting around, paying a deposit, the first month’s rent, and so on.
It always takes longer to get work than you think it will, and this is coming from someone with a recruiting background.
Rhonda: It can be quite humbling. You come in with all this experience, but people look at it and it doesn’t register as important or significant enough. It can be a humbling experience.
Nicole: Exactly. Sorry, I don’t know if I strayed from the original question.
Rhonda: No, you were talking about the challenges you faced in acclimatizing.
Translating experience for a new audience
Nicole: Terminology and jargon.
Rhonda: Give me an example.
Nicole: Job titles and what they mean are different. A big part of my time was spent reading hundreds of job vacancies. I was searching on LinkedIn or well-known job boards like Indeed, which are very keyword-driven, so I had to figure out alternative job titles.
Google becomes your best friend: “What does a CHRO do versus an HRBP?” Those weren’t titles I was intimately familiar with from my previous experience. What’s the difference?
Rhonda: But you had experience matching jobs. That’s how we met. You came in with that skill.
Nicole: Correct. I worked for multinational firms that reported into the US, so it wasn’t that I wasn’t exposed. It was understanding where to pitch myself, down to how my résumé should be worded. How do I get people to understand that, even though my experience was in another country, it’s relevant and important?
The other aspect is hiding that your work experience is from another country, which I recommend to other immigrants to this day.
Rhonda: I’ve struggled with that a lot. Sometimes I would hide where I was educated. I would leave out my bachelor’s and postgraduate diploma because I realized it could be a deterrent. People might say, “She’s from the Caribbean,” and automatically dismiss me. Although that’s discrimination, it happens all the time.
Those are things I’ve struggled with, but I’m glad you’re mentioning it. Could you expand on that?
Adapting a résumé and navigating bias
Nicole: I’m also in my 50s, so there’s the ageism aspect. Although I feel much less discriminated against for that here than in the Caribbean, because there are laws to govern that here.
You know how we look at résumés and work the numbers back. I advise candidates to remove their graduation dates from their résumés. A photograph on a résumé isn’t necessary. [Part of the wording about résumé photographs is unclear in the supplied transcript.]
Rhonda: Especially in America.
Nicole: Correct. But on LinkedIn, you want a photo. Mine is quite a few years old, and that’s deliberate. It’s about removing age bias. Vanity, maybe!
Let me step back. I paid someone to Americanize my résumé, which is ironic because I’ve advised people on their résumés my whole career. But looking at your own is harder.
Rhonda: It’s really hard.
Nicole: I paid good money before leaving Trinidad, and it was very well done. I learned a lot: how to make my experience relevant, what to include or leave out, and how to word it for a different audience.
That helped. I learned to have two or three different résumés and leave certain years of experience off because of the ageism aspect.
People still call me because of my experience, especially people looking to move to the US who want help with their résumés. I’m certainly no expert, but one of the first things I tell them is, “Take Trinidad and Tobago off your résumé.”
It draws someone’s eye, and you don’t want that to be what they focus on. You want your experience to be the focus. If it comes up in conversation, you can talk about it openly. But get your foot in the door first. Get to an interview, and let your experience and personality speak for themselves.
Rhonda: There are so many things you don’t think about until you face those hurdles. You wonder why something isn’t happening, then realize you need to take something off. You’re constantly adjusting it to the audience you’re trying to reach. Thank you. That was excellent. What do you do now?
Choosing a second career
Nicole: I’m a senior recruiter for Optum, part of UnitedHealth Group. Most people know the group because they have health insurance through it. To simplify, Optum is the consulting arm of the business.
I don’t recruit doctors, nurses, or medical people. I recruit consultants, technical people, and revenue cycle people. I hadn’t worked in healthcare before this role. [A brief phrase following this point is unclear.]
I love what I do, and I didn’t get here by luck. When I moved, I took about a year off to do the research and take a breather. I was a bit burned out, to be honest. I could take that time, so I did.
I decided not to go back into HR because this is a very [word unclear in the supplied transcript] society. Instead, I chose recruitment because it’s my first love. It’s work I enjoy and where I started my career. I call this my second career because I’m not trying to climb the corporate ladder.
Rhonda: You’ve been there and done that. I get it.
Nicole: This month marks one year as a full-time employee. Before that, I was on contract with them for about five months. That’s how they hire recruiters: on contract first, then normally convert after six months if they have room and it’s a good fit.
I had many interviews with other companies for recruiting jobs. I turned down a really good offer before this one because it wasn’t exactly what I wanted.
What I loved about this job was the people who interviewed me. I liked them personally. We’re back to that personal touch. More importantly, they understood that my experience wasn’t US experience, but recognized that I had value to bring and was senior in my experience.
In previous interviews, people tried to pigeonhole me, going back to terminology and jargon. They asked about full life cycle recruiting or agency experience, and I’d say, “I’ve done it all.”
I don’t fit neatly into those boxes. When you come from a small country, you don’t have the luxury of specializations because you wear many hats.
Rhonda: You have to do everything.
Nicole: But that’s something you have to learn to present positively. You have to sell it in an interview: “I don’t fit into these boxes, but that’s okay because I’ve had to do all these different things.” We had lean teams. You know we always had lean teams.
I had to learn to do that. Then you need the person on the other end to be willing to listen. Now that I’m the recruiter and interact with many immigrants in my work, I try to do the same thing.
Making a connection through shared experience
Rhonda: As an immigrant and recruiter, what does inclusion of immigrants and refugees in the workplace mean to you personally?
Nicole: I speak with a funny accent, and I normally talk about it first. I don’t know if people are afraid of being sued or being impolite, but I sometimes realize that when they first meet me, they’re distracted by my accent. They may not be listening to what I’m saying. It’s almost as though they’re trying to figure out where I’m from.
I don’t want them distracted, especially if I’m interviewing someone. If I get that feeling, I say, “If my accent is too strong, let me know. I’ll slow my speech down.”
Similarly, when I speak with someone else who has an accent, I try to make a connection by introducing myself and my accent: “I’m an immigrant too.” I’m not asking where they’re from, but I’m curious to know more about them.
I openly talk about being an immigrant, if my accent didn’t give me away. But I’ve certainly Americanized my accent many times when I need to.
Participating in inclusion efforts
Nicole: I’ve also made a point of joining diversity, equity, and inclusion groups. We had a DE&I culture pillar last year that I was part of. Ironically, I think I was the only immigrant, which I found interesting because statistically there should have been more than one of me.
The makeup of some groups is interesting because it isn’t representative. We have 200,000 people in our company, so I don’t know why we don’t have more representation.
Just yesterday, I got a call asking if I wanted to be part of something else, and I said, “Yes!” I’m still learning. DE&I wasn’t part of the Caribbean culture, at least not up until I left. I’m sure it is more so now.
I jokingly tell people we didn’t have a lot of those issues where I come from. We had more tolerance and acceptance. Not that we don’t have racial tensions; of course we do.
Rhonda: We do.
Nicole: But there’s more tolerance, perhaps because we’re a smaller society.
One wonderful discovery I made when I moved here was that, coming from a country where we celebrated Eid, Diwali, and [part of the list of celebrations is unclear in the supplied transcript], there was an inherent acknowledgment, acceptance, and understanding of things that weren’t our own norms. We were exposed to them, perhaps without appreciating that this exposure gave us a better understanding.
Rhonda: And relationships. I remember learning about Hinduism and the Muslim faith in primary and high school. I went to a Catholic primary school, although I wasn’t Catholic. There was intentional education about the different cultures within Trinidad.
That helped us get along and appreciate each other. It wasn’t a barrier. I had Hindu, Muslim, and Catholic friends, as well as friends of my own faith. It wasn’t a stumbling block to relationships.
One thing that surprises me in the US is how much people don’t know about different groups and cultures. Education is important, and it’s one reason I’m doing this. Once you start learning, you realize we have much more in common than we have differences.
Nicole: Absolutely. I fully agree. I also find myself gravitating toward immigrants. When I looked for doctors, I automatically gravitated toward immigrants because I felt more comfortable with them. They felt like my people.
Rhonda: I get that too. It’s one reason I gravitate toward some of the industries I’ve worked in. In international NGOs, you find a lot of immigrants. I understand that.
Being genuine while learning the workplace culture
Rhonda: We’ve talked about acclimatizing to a new country. What about the workplace? What have you learned about retaining some of your culture while not feeling so different that you’re ostracized?
Nicole: This is something I’ve done with every role: go in, learn about people, and understand the culture. That applies to any job in any country.
What made it different as an immigrant was figuring out how to present a genuine part of myself in a way people would be interested in. I’m not looking to push my culture or home country on anyone because people can resist that. I chose to move here. It’s about, “This is me. This is part of who I am.”
I’m fortunate to work with people who want to know, because not everybody does. They ask, “What’s a traditional thing you do at Christmas?” or, “What food would you eat?”
But it took me over six months to feel comfortable doing that. That was about my own comfort, not necessarily the people I work with. I played it down, absolutely. I toned it down.
I was doing training recently and discovered what “covering” was. I thought, “Oh my God, I do that.”
Rhonda: Explain.
Nicole: Playing down or distancing yourself from certain groups or cultural aspects to avoid being associated with them negatively. It goes back to insecurity: “I come from a third-world country. I come from a little island. I don’t want people to miss that I’m actually good at what I do.” I don’t want that to distract them.
Years ago, I saw something about people experiencing impostor syndrome. I think when we come from a small country, from the third world to the first world, we can have an inherent feeling that we’re impostors.
I think we were brought up, deliberately or unconsciously, to believe foreign was better and the first world was better. I’m still shrugging that off. It’s going to take me a while.
But you have to see the positives. I’ve worked on side projects where I’ve done things that seem basic and simple to me, things I’ve done for much of my career, yet they’re received as something wonderful. I think, “Maybe I do know what I’m doing.”
Rhonda: I’ve had that experience too.
Taking the time to get names right
Nicole: Going back to immigrants and refugees, I do a lot of tech recruiting. There are many immigrants in that field. I get a lot of joy from pronouncing people’s names correctly.
Rhonda: Me too. I don’t know where that comes from, but I do.
Nicole: They love it. If I don’t know how to pronounce a name, I ask, “How do you pronounce your name?”
It’s such a simple thing, but it makes a huge difference to that initial contact. I get the feeling people shy away from asking.
Something else I didn’t know until I moved here was how people anglicize their names to make them easier to pronounce. They say, “You can just call me TJ.” I think, “TJ? That’s nothing like your name.”
My surname, Blanc, has been mispronounced my entire life. I’m accustomed to it, and I tell people how it sounds and how it’s spelled. [Examples of the different pronunciations are unclear in the supplied transcript.] It doesn’t offend me, but your name is important.
If I’m trying to establish a relationship with a candidate, and I may be their first point of contact with my company, something like that matters.
Making a difference through small actions
Nicole: It’s little things for me, Rhonda. We can’t all have a massive impact. That’s how I can make a difference: start with the little things.
During Diwali, I might ask, “What are you doing for Diwali?” They say, “You know about that?” Yes, I do. Or I ask about Eid. They’re pleasantly surprised. It’s about acknowledging that there’s a whole country and culture behind an individual.
I’ve been part of groups where simply being there and asking questions has made an impact because I’m an immigrant and have a different perspective.
It can be little things, such as meeting icebreakers or Kahoot quizzes. All the questions may be specific to people born and raised in the US, excluding people who weren’t. It’s about being aware. Nothing big.
From a recruiting perspective, I sit on the DE&I committee for the local SHRM chapter, the Human Resources Association for Western New England. We’re all recruiters or HR people.
I’ve shared the things we discussed earlier about résumés: what people put on them, what they leave off, and how they have to approach recruiting. People were wide-eyed, shocked, and horrified that candidates felt they had to do that.
By being part of the group, I hope I’ve opened other recruiters’ eyes. That’s how I contribute.
To be honest, I’ve never knowingly interacted with someone who was a refugee. I may have without knowing. My experience has mainly been with immigrants.
Lessons for other immigrants
Rhonda: That’s very helpful. Thank you. What is the most important lesson you’ve learned in your journey that you’d like to share with immigrants and refugees listening?
Nicole: Do your research. Figure out how to make yourself relevant. Unfortunately, the onus is on you, not the person looking to give you a job. You’re the one directly benefiting.
I’m not just talking about work. I mean settling into life: getting a driver’s license, knowing the documentation you need, and doing what you need to do. If you have family here, ask for help getting there.
In finding work, there’s so much available online now that wasn’t available five or ten years ago. Always think about how it looks on your résumé. [A phrase immediately before this point is unclear in the supplied transcript.]
Highlight any experience you had in your home country working with US companies. Understand that your job title elsewhere may be different here, even though it’s the same work. Figure out how to present it. People are more comfortable if they understand what they’re reading.
My focus is always on those things because you need money to live, so you need to earn it. That’s my current focus and my lesson for today.
Closing reflections
Rhonda: Nicole, this has been great. I’ve learned so much from chatting with you. Thank you for staying connected and agreeing to do this. We’ll stay in touch, as we have over the years. Thank you for sharing your story and all these tips.
Nicole: Thank you. I hope people can understand me. I’m comfortable talking to you, so I’m probably speaking too fast, and my accent is probably too strong!
Rhonda: I think it’ll be great. Thank you so much.
Nicole: Thank you, Rhonda, for doing what you’re doing. I think it’s very important. As I said earlier, when you started and asked me to be part of it, going through the survey was eye-opening.
I didn’t know I was doing some of these things to acclimate. It wasn’t conscious. That was interesting and made me more interested in seeing what you would do with it.
Rhonda: Thank you so much. Bye.
Nicole: Bye-bye.
You can connect with Nicole Blanc on LinkedIn.
Follow Accentuate! on LinkedIn.
Interested in developing your leadership potential or strengthening your effectiveness across cultures?
Explore ACCENTUATE!'s Career & Leadership Coaching, Hogan Assessments, and Cultural Intelligence (CQ) Assessments and Coaching.
Click Get Started to learn more.
